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EPA engineer says U.S. is not likely to reach mandated 54 mpg by 2025

GasBuddy Blog -- Coming on the heels of the President Obama's State of the Union address last week, I was startled by the candor with which Jeff Alson, one of the EPA's senior engineers, spoke when he was interviewed by Nathan Bomey of the Detroit Free Press. Apparently USA TODAY was pretty surprised because they published it too.

Alson said Americans can expect to pay about $2,600 more on average for a new vehicle in 2025 in automakers if automakers hope to achieve the 54 mph corporate average fuel economy that has been EPA mandated by 2025.

Contrary to the president's comments advocating to "shift our cars and trucks off oil for good" Alson said that's not likely to happen; 9 out of 10 of those cars (in 2025) will still be running on...

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Submitted Feb 20, 2013 By: PD

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borsht All-Star Author Oakland Posts:774 Points:185,905 Joined:Aug 2012	Message Posted: Apr 27, 2013 1:34:19 PM Ignore borsht Report Abuse The EPA needs to focus on real issues' They mandate that by 2025 we must meet 54mpg. Also they want to mandate oxygenated fuel. If they decide to push for E85, they surely will not get 54mpg. It appears more and more that the inmates are running the asylum.
mdr46 Rookie Author Maryland Posts:82 Points:56,225 Joined:Jan 2013	Message Posted: Apr 25, 2013 1:28:08 PM Ignore mdr46 Report Abuse I'd like to know how the EPA comes up with these MPG numbers. Do they really think that everyone wants to drive around a small econobox? It may be possible to get 40MPG with a small lightweight vehicle, but what about a larger heavy vehicle like a truck that needs a larger engine for carrying payload or towing? Good luck trying to get 40MPG from that.
Donatelo Champion Author Dayton Posts:1,115 Points:290,865 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: Apr 24, 2013 8:18:22 AM Ignore Donatelo Report Abuse change all diesel engines over to natural gas(propane), and use our own resources. converting a diesel to run propane is a fairly easy process, we have plenty of natural gas reserves if we also use what we have on public lands.
99dakota Champion Author Providence Posts:8,087 Points:2,168,025 Joined:Oct 2006	Message Posted: Apr 24, 2013 4:42:26 AM Ignore 99dakota Report Abuse There is plenty of oil out there... We just need to go out and get it!
Bttlecat All-Star Author Oklahoma City Posts:709 Points:82,675 Joined:Jan 2013	Message Posted: Apr 22, 2013 11:52:53 PM Ignore Bttlecat Report Abuse "shift our cars and trucks off oil for good." How about shifting this nation out of reverse and put it into a forward gear?
priver Veteran Author Alberta Posts:403 Points:33,435 Joined:Apr 2013	Message Posted: Apr 21, 2013 7:32:02 AM Ignore priver Report Abuse never say never
131rnmom Rookie Author Pittsburgh Posts:9 Points:273,760 Joined:Mar 2012	Message Posted: Feb 24, 2013 11:16:52 PM Ignore 131rnmom Report Abuse We must have 4wheel drive vehicles to get in and out of our access driveway. 9 out of 16 of the vehicles owed by neighbors are 4wh drive. We get. 11-13 miles per gallon. The new mandated 54mpg would be a blessing but thats only for the types of cars that prevent us from actually reaching home. Would be nice if 4wh drive vehicles were included!
paulweb All-Star Author Ohio Posts:806 Points:353,270 Joined:May 2011	Message Posted: Feb 24, 2013 9:16:09 AM Ignore paulweb Report Abuse EPA mandates fuel standards; but will the vehicles be as safe as today?
Mypennygas Rookie Author Sarasota Posts:4 Points:180 Joined:Sep 2012	Message Posted: Feb 22, 2013 6:47:04 PM Ignore Mypennygas Report Abuse Hey Guys mypennygas.com is doing a free gas giveaway tonight.
fuzzyscout Rookie Author Virginia Posts:63 Points:309,250 Joined:May 2011	Message Posted: Feb 22, 2013 7:35:50 AM Ignore fuzzyscout Report Abuse You can only predict events after they've happened. -- Eugene Ionesco
sonicmustang All-Star Author Alberta Posts:637 Points:149,375 Joined:Dec 2010	Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 10:41:44 PM Ignore sonicmustang Report Abuse Too bad
hskerven Rookie Author Wisconsin Posts:79 Points:48,205 Joined:Jan 2013	Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 9:36:53 PM Ignore hskerven Report Abuse They could of been making more fuel efficient cars 20 years ago but every ones to busy Jackn each other off
phpearso Sophomore Author Indiana Posts:109 Points:132,270 Joined:Mar 2004	Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 5:26:20 PM Ignore phpearso Report Abuse *Are you saying 53% of the adults in this country are idiots?* Hmmmm.... Getting warmer.
phpearso Sophomore Author Indiana Posts:109 Points:132,270 Joined:Mar 2004	Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 5:23:44 PM Ignore phpearso Report Abuse by 2025 we should not need to get 54 mpg.!
thorman52 Veteran Author South Bend Posts:388 Points:40,050 Joined:Jan 2009	Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 3:42:14 PM Ignore thorman52 Report Abuse So, what's the bottom line? We want vehicles that get 100 mpg and want to pay 50 cents a gallon. Ain't gonna happen. The price at the pump will never see an average of $3.00 a gallon or lower ever again. As vehicles become more fuel efficient and the supply of oil steadily decrease, demand decreases and prices will increase. The reasons for high gas prices are many and complicated. Like blaming the President, regardless of who's in the White House at the time. Some in this forum blame the current President for everything that is going wrong in the USA today (and refuse to see what's going right). If that were true wouldn’t he have been impeached a long time ago? If that were true how did he get re-elected? Are you saying 53% of the adults in this country are idiots? Quite a claim. Blaming Congress is closer but even Congress doesn't wave any magic wand to control prices. But they do legislate or ignore legislation that affects the price of gas. Get the big oil lobbyists away from Capitol Hill and maybe Congress will act in the best interests of the people who elected them rather than lining their pockets and those of big oil. Blame the EPA. One poster stated that they pull figures out of thin air. How ridiculous can you get? I'm confident that the EPA has very competent engineers doing the math. Their mission is to monitor, compile facts and figures, and enforcement that can affect the gas mileage of vehicles. Then when Congress passes legislation the EPA will enforce that legislation. They have no independent input on what you pay at the pump. Seems some people need to educate themselves as to how the government works and who has what responsibilities. “A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing.”
GatorGuy Champion Author Columbia Posts:2,220 Points:1,202,985 Joined:Jan 2009	Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 1:50:29 PM Ignore GatorGuy Report Abuse Yeah, I never thought that was realistic...even if it was achievable it would make vehicles too costly to where nobody could afford one.
lyanMI Veteran Author Detroit Posts:260 Points:208,345 Joined:May 2012	Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 1:28:12 PM Ignore lyanMI Report Abuse I have my doubts too.
EMoe57 Champion Author Jacksonville Posts:4,592 Points:1,011,065 Joined:Apr 2009	Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 11:15:00 AM Ignore EMoe57 Report Abuse Can't reach it if you don't even try!
briandbec Champion Author Tucson Posts:4,219 Points:495,890 Joined:Aug 2011	Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 9:15:11 AM Ignore briandbec Report Abuse 54mpg (EPA stds are not the window-sticker stds - they tend to create bigger numbers from the same results) is entirely achievable. But it means we as a nation have to get used to taking longer than 12 sec to get from 0-60 mph. If they put a 1.4L turbo diesel in a Camry today, it would get 54mpg pretty easily. It would be so slow no one would buy it.
sleuth696 All-Star Author Ventura Posts:918 Points:197,940 Joined:Oct 2012	Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 9:14:20 AM Ignore sleuth696 Report Abuse Refreshing to see someone from EPA tell the truth. Unfortunately, he'll be gone because he didn't toe the line.
bridgerunner Champion Author Virginia Posts:4,767 Points:1,002,835 Joined:Jul 2009	Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 9:13:36 AM Ignore bridgerunner Report Abuse Not gonna happen!
badharley Champion Author Tampa Posts:1,010 Points:737,285 Joined:Jul 2010	Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 9:13:32 AM Ignore badharley Report Abuse Won't be able to afford a new car then.
rual817 Sophomore Author Dallas Posts:112 Points:160,035 Joined:Nov 2011	Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 9:12:00 AM Ignore rual817 Report Abuse What we need to do is get away from gasoline and use a more efficient diesel. Diesel produces more BTU than gasoline. I drive a 2000 VW Jetta TDI new only produced 90hp, but LOTS of low end torque which helps pulling and take-off. I get a combined 37.3mpg (34c-41h) on 50+ tanks (tracked by fuelly.com). VW current 2.0 TDI produces about the same numbers, or very slightly better Fuel Economy and better HP/Torque. VW just unveiled their NEW 1.6 TDI, which the HP/Torque will fall between the 1.9 and 2.0, and will blow the doors off EVERTHING with their Fuel Economy. Tested @ 74mpg combined. That makes it mid 60’s city /low 80’s highway. This is NOT a hybrid, but a full Diesel set-up, and today’s diesel cars are quieter than they used to be. Yes… Diesel is more per gallon, but when you factor Fuel Economy, mine is cheaper than most gas cars. At current prices, $3.699 gas / $3.999 diesel, here are the numbers. $3.999 / 37.3mpg = $0.1072 per mile, on diesel ( 37.3/$3.999= 9.3 miles per dollar ) $3.699 / 34.5mpg = $0.1072 per mile, on gas. ( 34.5/$3.699= 9.3 miles per dollar ) So unless you are getting better than 34.5 combined mpg, the diesel is cheaper to drive per mile. $3.699 / 20mpg = $0.185 per mile on gas. ( 20/$3.699= 5.4 miles per dollar ) Want to compare this to a hybrid?? My car HAS pulled a broken down 96 Chevy Asto Van loaded with mechanics tool's. I work part time as mechanic and work for this guy from time to time. His engine quit after 372k on his Mobile Mechanic Van. I pulled him home and his van grossed 7k+. I don't think a Prius could do that.
DimitrisIL Champion Author Chicago Posts:1,496 Points:519,275 Joined:Feb 2011	Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 9:11:15 AM Ignore DimitrisIL Report Abuse It's only 2013 and there are already cars that get 35-40mps (not hybrids). 50-55mps by 2025 is more than doable. They have more than 10-12 years to achive it.
vrossi46 Champion Author San Jose Posts:2,652 Points:800,920 Joined:Oct 2008	Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 9:10:54 AM Ignore vrossi46 Report Abuse i sure have my doubts
Number43 Champion Author Lexington Posts:8,672 Points:1,634,110 Joined:Oct 2008	Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 9:09:57 AM Ignore Number43 Report Abuse I wouldn't want one of those junk piles. Let them kill someone else's family. I'll keep my older bigger heavier safer car.
emernal Champion Author St. Louis Posts:6,922 Points:2,010,070 Joined:Mar 2004	Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 9:09:29 AM Ignore emernal Report Abuse Depends on how much gas prices continue to go up as economy improves.
Toppers Champion Author Atlanta Posts:8,987 Points:2,465,720 Joined:Mar 2005	Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 9:07:30 AM Ignore Toppers Report Abuse Probably a good if we just get close...
oldforger Veteran Author Calgary Posts:399 Points:351,105 Joined:Jan 2012	Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 9:06:45 AM Ignore oldforger Report Abuse safety is a real matter
rippinusoff Champion Author Lexington Posts:7,383 Points:1,483,775 Joined:May 2007	Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 9:06:35 AM Ignore rippinusoff Report Abuse I want my "Obama" gas card...
Rainy1 All-Star Author San Diego Posts:543 Points:57,930 Joined:Apr 2012	Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 9:05:48 AM Ignore Rainy1 Report Abuse Just give me a free gas card for life!!!!
tomok Champion Author Portland Posts:32,907 Points:2,341,510 Joined:Aug 2006	Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 9:05:43 AM Ignore tomok Report Abuse U.S. is not likely to reach mandated 54 mpg by 2025, that sounds about right. There is a trade off for high vehicle mpg and the cost of that vehicle. The higher the vehicle mpg, the more that vehicle will cost. With the current economy, how many people can afford one? The higher the vehicle mpg, the less fuel bought and sold, the more fuel will cost. There are a variety of vehicle fuels available now, gasoline, diesel, electricity, natural gas, hydrogen, ethanol or a combination of fuels to power the vehicle. If not the previous fuels, what will replace them? High mpg vehicle? A light weight vehicle with a high fuel efficent engine? An enclosed motorcycle? 'Coming out of the closet' Sneeky's lousy, smoke and mirrors, lack of jobs, dog and pony show and in the crapper economy, the jobs are Not here. Sneeky's economy is not improving but continues to hurt the population and the job numbers continue to be down! NO More spending gone wild, there has to be a limit! Four long years before this country's economy will ever begin to recover. Drive vehicles with high MPG, are very safe, reliable, have a ‘reasonable’ cost and a good ‘value’ for the money. The price of fuel at the pump is too high!
ramgas Champion Author Texas Posts:2,155 Points:1,298,305 Joined:Jan 2005	Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 9:05:34 AM Ignore ramgas Report Abuse Oil lobby too powerful.
matman01 Champion Author Detroit Posts:14,812 Points:1,955,860 Joined:May 2007	Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 9:05:27 AM Ignore matman01 Report Abuse What a crock...the EPA is a joke!
AriesMMD Champion Author Sacramento Posts:1,476 Points:408,440 Joined:Dec 2011	Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 9:03:56 AM Ignore AriesMMD Report Abuse They don't want to change from a semi-efficient drive train to a political toy?
LuckyD43 Champion Author Long Island Posts:31,950 Points:2,163,095 Joined:Apr 2005	Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 9:02:15 AM Ignore LuckyD43 Report Abuse I never considered that 54 mpg goal to be realistic anyway. The 40 mpg estimate sounds more plausible because there are some cars today already getting 30+. With today's technology, I believe it is possible to get 40 mpg by 2025.
rrs517 All-Star Author Colorado Posts:903 Points:339,730 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 9:02:07 AM Ignore rrs517 Report Abuse Old News
gafgar Champion Author Detroit Posts:1,043 Points:325,490 Joined:Feb 2012	Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 9:01:55 AM Ignore gafgar Report Abuse maybe they could just claim that their vehs get better mpg than they do, just like now.
liao Champion Author Montreal Posts:3,427 Points:1,424,235 Joined:Sep 2008	Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 9:01:43 AM Ignore liao Report Abuse Try harder.
shea33 Champion Author Pensacola Posts:2,343 Points:538,715 Joined:Oct 2011	Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 9:01:15 AM Ignore shea33 Report Abuse Nothing we didn't know when the statment was made.
Neely8 Veteran Author Boston Posts:434 Points:96,500 Joined:Feb 2013	Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 9:00:55 AM Ignore Neely8 Report Abuse Won't happen because the auto manufacturers don't want to spend the extra money, even though it will be better for our environment.
goalie1950 Champion Author Phoenix Posts:6,385 Points:1,291,445 Joined:Oct 2009	Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 8:59:04 AM Ignore goalie1950 Report Abuse No real surprise here. Just another empty policy from the Obummer administration that has no future of being successful.
vcsuksu21 Champion Author Oklahoma City Posts:2,468 Points:703,680 Joined:Dec 2010	Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 8:58:55 AM Ignore vcsuksu21 Report Abuse i expected that, I guess I qualify as an EPA Engineer
gsofrs Champion Author Greensboro Posts:4,128 Points:1,212,565 Joined:Apr 2009	Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 8:53:50 AM Ignore gsofrs Report Abuse Lofty goal to begin with.
ZeroBoxes Champion Author Mississippi Posts:1,064 Points:209,565 Joined:Apr 2012	Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 8:52:26 AM Ignore ZeroBoxes Report Abuse Uhm… educated civil servants with comb-overs and Dunlap disease.
F81M Champion Author Indiana Posts:1,473 Points:782,160 Joined:Aug 2008	Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 8:52:07 AM Ignore F81M Report Abuse He won't be there long if he keeps saying stuff like that!!
geezrtek Champion Author Michigan Posts:1,886 Points:427,735 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 8:52:03 AM Ignore geezrtek Report Abuse Old
bbthegun Champion Author San Diego Posts:5,968 Points:1,677,115 Joined:Sep 2006	Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 8:51:58 AM Ignore bbthegun Report Abuse nordlead - while your point about EPA needing engineers is a salient point why is it the EPA sides with leftist junk science nuts 95% of the time then? Doesn't sound like they listen to their own engineers or their engineers are so incompetent that they can't get a private sector job. Don't worry, I'm not picking on the EPA here, most government workers (>50%) can't get a private sector job either. They aren't smart enough nor have the work ethic to make it.
livedream Champion Author Michigan Posts:3,664 Points:751,060 Joined:Mar 2011	Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 8:50:23 AM Ignore livedream Report Abuse I'm not surprised. I will definitely buy an EV before 54 mpg is ever reached.
dieselfiendSC Champion Author South Carolina Posts:2,170 Points:842,305 Joined:Nov 2008	Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 8:50:08 AM Ignore dieselfiendSC Report Abuse Wow, I would not have guessed, but now that an EPA engineer says so we should listen.